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Saints and Bounties

  • Full Disclosure: I'm a saints fan

    I don't see the big deal here. Football players are hitting as hard as they can anyway. Adding a $1000 to guy making 2mil is hardly big incentive for him to do what he was already there to do. And wasn't there a clause in the bounty that they could not be penalized?

    I figure all NFL teams have similar incentives too.

    But I think for PC reasons the Saints are going to get hammered by Goodell.

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    Full Disclosure: I'm a saints fan

    I don't see the big deal here. Football players are hitting as hard as they can anyway. Adding a $1000 to guy making 2mil is hardly big incentive for him to do what he was already there to do. And wasn't there a clause in the bounty that they could not be penalized?

    I figure all NFL teams have similar incentives too.

    But I think for PC reasons the Saints are going to get hammered by Goodell.

    I actually agree.
    The NFL is being PC about it, for fear of future lawsuits.

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    Dstyle

  • It is the principle of giving incentive to injure. Big hits are great and should and will be a part of the game forever, but they are not the same as a knock out or an intended injury. In the light of our increasing awareness of the implications of head injuries down the road, this type of thing is mind bogglingly callous.

    As a side note, I've often found when people criticize political correctness, they do so in a defense for something that simply should not have been done or said.

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    I will not be working with you, but against you. - USC Outsider

    USCMichigander

  • Monkey..lets say there was a 500 thousand dollar bounty on Drew Brees..by ..hmmm...the Altlanta Falcons ..to end his season..( anyway possible...legal or otherwise..after the whistle ..career ending ..doesn't matter)

    Do you see anything wrong with that ?
    Because...that's the next step

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by icky trojan on 3/5/2012 at 11:00 AM

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    Feelings get hurt, best not to have any! DESTROY!

    icky trojan

  • I like the Saints too, but this is wrong. Sure the money was not big, but it was still making a game out of trying to injure opposing players.

    Rosebowl91

  • USCMichigander said...

    As a side note, I've often found when people criticize political correctness, they do so in a defense for something that simply should not have been done or said.

    People like to throw around the phrase political correctness, when in reality it is just plain correct.

    Rosebowl91

  • Yes in this case the size of the bounty is key. A thousand dollars is nothing to these guys and the penalty they get from the NFL for an illegal hit far exceeeds their bounty. These defense players are hitting the offensive players as hard as they can anyway. I don't belive the bounty changed they way the players played the game. I think this is very close to the equivelent of the buckyeye stickers on the helmets and the like. Just an atta boy. From what I understand they also didn't target specific players. It was like $250 for a guy stayhing down, $500 for a guy needing assistence off the field adn $1000 for carried off.

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • icky trojan said...

    Monkey..lets say there was a 500 thousand dollar bounty on Drew Brees..by ..hmmm...the Altlanta Falcons ..to end his season..( anyway possible...legal or otherwise..after the whistle ..career ending ..doesn't matter)

    Do you see anything wrong with that ? Because...that's the next step

    That is the next step and I do have a problem with that. I don't have much of a problem with this step. Bad form no doubt but I don't think it impacted how the players played.

    This post was edited by TrojanMonkey on 3/5/2012 at 11:13 AM

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    Yes in this case the size of the bounty is key. A thousand dollars is nothing to these guys and the penalty they get from the NFL for an illegal hit far exceeeds their bounty. These defense players are hitting the offensive players as hard as they can anyway. I don't belive the bounty changed they way the players played the game. I think this is very close to the equivelent of the buckyeye stickers on the helmets and the like. Just an atta boy. From what I understand they also didn't target specific players. It was like $250 for a guy stayhing down, $500 for a guy needing assistence off the field adn $1000 for carried off.

    Eh, but it is the message it sends. I'm not about to call Gregg Williams bloodthirsty, and yeah, rewarding 100K for a knockout would be blood thirstiness, so I get you're point, but the fact that he would pay any sum of money for an injury instead of something like a turnover just isn't right

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    I will not be working with you, but against you. - USC Outsider

    USCMichigander

  • Rosebowl91 said...

    I like the Saints too, but this is wrong. Sure the money was not big, but it was still making a game out of trying to injure opposing players.

    That's kind of what football is. It's a disturbing thought but it's the reality.

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • My big problem is the inconsistency between talk and walk.

    In the light, the players claim to be concerned about needless injuries.

    In the dark they try to cause 'em.

    The serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.

    901Club

  • What you do ...is in lue of handing out skull and crossbone helmet stickers like in HS ( or buckeye leafs ..or pot leafs ?? at tOSU) you may have some bonus money to dish out for " good plays" instead ...now those "plays" could injure a guy or could be just a good hard hit. Officially they are given out for good plays.

    The Saints were stupid to have this policy as it was.

    In the NFL there is a unity between all the players and a "unspoken rule" that someone on the opposing team isn't going to try to end your career ..( if the do...their knees are a target ..and sooner or later THEY GET GOT) ...it's a big boy leauge with plenty of risks but no one there wants to have a career ended because of some bullshit ..if you play that way ..

    YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED...
    thats accepted

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by icky trojan on 3/5/2012 at 11:25 AM

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    Feelings get hurt, best not to have any! DESTROY!

    icky trojan

  • USCMichigander said...

    Eh, but it is the message it sends. I'm not about to call Gregg Williams bloodthirsty, and yeah, rewarding 100K for a knockout would be blood thirstiness, so I get you're point, but the fact that he would pay any sum of money for an injury instead of something like a turnover just isn't right

    I agree, it's not what sports are suppossed to be about. But it is what the NFL has become. This is more a symptom of the disease rather than the disease itself (imo)

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • Rosebowl91 said...

    People like to throw around the phrase political correctness, when in reality it is just plain correct.

    So they Saints admitting to doing what everybody knows they are already paid to do gets them in trouble. To me that is a PC issue.

    It's morbid and dark for sure but that's the business these guys are in.

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    . From what I understand they also didn't target specific players. It was like $250 for a guy stayhing down, $500 for a guy needing assistence off the field adn $1000 for carried off.

    I keep coming back, over and over, to something I first reported Friday evening, something I saw in a confidential four-page memo sent to the 32 teams (and obtained from one of those teams) late Friday, detailing the abuses.

    "At times, players both pledged significant amounts and targeted particular players,'' the memo said. "For example, prior to a Saints playoff game in January 2010, defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offered $10,000 in cash to any player who knocked Favre out of the game.''

    Anyone who thinks the Saints defense didn't go over the line to try to do just that wasn't watching the game

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/05/offseason/index.html#ixzz1oGZ0lObW

    westcoastfball

  • westcoastfball said...

    I keep coming back, over and over, to something I first reported Friday evening, something I saw in a confidential four-page memo sent to the 32 teams (and obtained from one of those teams) late Friday, detailing the abuses.

    "At times, players both pledged significant amounts and targeted particular players,'' the memo said. "For example, prior to a Saints playoff game in January 2010, defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offered $10,000 in cash to any player who knocked Favre out of the game.''

    Anyone who thinks the Saints defense didn't go over the line to try to do just that wasn't watching the game

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/05/offseason/index.html#ixzz1oGZ0lObW

    If that's true then I'll withdraw my defense of them.

    To me the amount of money and targeting specific players are deal breakers.

    I remember the beating favre took in that game too. I was feeling bad for him and there were plenty of late hits.

    This post was edited by TrojanMonkey on 3/5/2012 at 11:59 AM

    The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen - Dennis Prager

    TrojanMonkey

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    If that's true then I'll withdraw my defense of them.

    To me the amount of money and targeting specific players are deal breakers.

    I remember the beating favre took in that game too. I was feeling bad for him and there were plenty of late hits.

    If you read further in the article that is linked it goes back to a hit Peyton Manning took against the Washington Redskins that Tony Dungy says was the start of his neck problems. Washington's defensive coordinator that day was Gregg Williams.

    westcoastfball

  • The Saints also knocked Kurt Warner out of a game in his final season.

    wake6830

  • 901Club said...

    My big problem is the inconsistency between talk and walk.

    In the light, the players claim to be concerned about needless injuries.

    In the dark they try to cause 'em.

    Totally agree.

    westcoastfball

  • Hell, I know pee-wee teams that give ice cream for hits that knock the other kids out of the game.

    This is part of football...it is no different than an Ohio St LB getting a sticker for his helmet for a big hit.

    deetj13

  • deetj13 said...

    Hell, I know pee-wee teams that give ice cream for hits that knock the other kids out of the game.

    This is part of football...it is no different than an Ohio St LB getting a sticker for his helmet for a big hit.

    I would be fine with it if I didn't hear the players concerned about player safety or a group of former players suing the league.

    I don't think we are talking about big hits here, we are talking about a financial reward for injuring players with either legal or illegal hits.

    westcoastfball

  • westcoastfball said...

    I would be fine with it if I didn't hear the players concerned about player safety or a group of former players suing the league.

    I don't think we are talking about big hits here, we are talking about a financial reward for injuring players with either legal or illegal hits.

    agreed. If this was just getting paid for a big hit I'd be fine with it. But the idea of celebrating another player being carted off the field? That's sick. Especially coming from people whose own livelihood depends on their health.

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  • icky trojan said...

    What you do ...is in lue of handing out skull and crossbone helmet stickers like in HS ( or buckeye leafs ..or pot leafs ?? at tOSU) you may have some bonus money to dish out for " good plays" instead ...now those "plays" could injure a guy or could be just a good hard hit. Officially they are given out for good plays.

    The Saints were stupid to have this policy as it was.

    In the NFL there is a unity between all the players and a "unspoken rule" that someone on the opposing team isn't going to try to end your career ..( if the do...their knees are a target ..and sooner or later THEY GET GOT) ...it's a big boy leauge with plenty of risks but no one there wants to have a career ended because of some bullshit ..if you play that way ..

    YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED... thats accepted

    This ... nice two posts Icky ... up vote on both ... biggrin

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    USC Outsider

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    If that's true then I'll withdraw my defense of them.

    To me the amount of money and targeting specific players are deal breakers.

    I remember the beating favre took in that game too. I was feeling bad for him and there were plenty of late hits.

    Now you get it ...

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    USC Outsider

  • TrojanMonkey said...

    Full Disclosure: I'm a saints fan

    I don't see the big deal here. Football players are hitting as hard as they can anyway. Adding a $1000 to guy making 2mil is hardly big incentive for him to do what he was already there to do. And wasn't there a clause in the bounty that they could not be penalized?

    I figure all NFL teams have similar incentives too.

    But I think for PC reasons the Saints are going to get hammered by Goodell.

    How many of us have ever entered a contest for a prize that we really didn't need? That didn't stop us from entering in an attempt to win the prize, did it?

    Many people will do almost anything to win a prize... Even attempt to skirt the rules, if necessary. Why should we expect any different behavior from NFL players then?

    The amount of prize money these players were offered is irrelevant. Adding a clause claiming they could not be penalized for the hit is nothing more than CYA protection on their part.

    These guys earn great salaries to deliver big blows legitimately. Adding a bounty to their already great salaries is nothing more than an attempt to injure opponents, by any means necessary... And hope like hell they don't get caught.

    They got caught. Hopefully Greg Williams is suspended for the entire year, and I kinda liked Bill Plaschke's idea of suspending New Orleans from any playoff appearance next season.

    This post was edited by brdcstr1 on 3/5/2012 at 3:05 PM

    brdcstr1