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Thanks for the down vote when I was just speaking my mind. It's not like I don't tip lol
Can you elaborate this sales tax thing? Doesn't the customer pay tax on their food in addition to tip?
In other parts of the world where tipping is not customary, higher pay is built into the cost of eating at a restaurant and the waiter is paid more. Here, the waiter is paid less and his salary is not built into the cost of food. It is mostly a matter of custom. The benefit of our way is that there is an incentive to the waiter to give good service. Considering that the waiter's living is largely from tips, it is very cheap not to leave a customary amount unless the service was bad and that was the fault of the waiter.
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I didn't down vote you if you think I did.
As for the tax, if I am a waiter, I have to claim a portion of my total sales as additional income. So on top of what you the customer pays for sales tax, I have to pay because the state assumes I am gathering tips on top of my bill which is true. Maybe I shouldn't have called it an additional sales tax, call it an income tax if anything. I'm not sure if that's the exact term though.
This post was edited by DF1982 17 months ago
to be fair, in other parts of the world, people dont get paid as much to begin with as they do here stateside.
you mean getting taxed on the tip right? the loophole to that is whenever they get a tip in cash they pocket it & never report it. they have to report any tip that comes electronically via your CC or debit card.
COMING for it? He's already taken plenty! MORE TO COME, I am sure.
Join the fight for YOUR liberty!
I saw highlights of an interview of him yesterday. He gave his word there would be no more tax increases on his watch.
We will see what happens.
"...an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough jobs or enough profits" JFK
And then what happens is the owner gets into the mix via a message from the customer. And the owner either sacrifices his employee or his own money. And I can tell you right now it will be the former 99% of the time.
I normally tip generously for good service. But I am tired of hearing about servers that feel they can hold the customer hostage. Go ahead and play your games and lets see who wins on that one. I'm very vocal in this area.
You are incorrect, we are paying for the food and the service. Thus the reason we are "seated". Otherwise they would bring it out in a bag.
And frankly, shouldn't the tip be based more on the service than the price? Does it take more to bring a plate of Filet and Lobster than it does a Hamburger and fries? Personally, I tip more percentage wise to the waitress at Denny's than I do at Antonello's. And even then it really isn't fair.
This post was edited by sec13graphics 17 months ago
Yes, that's how they take care of the loophole. They don't want unclaimed income and that's legit by me.
My point, however, is that the calculation is a % of your total sales to erase that loophole or at least close it. So if the waiter gets 0 tip all day he has essentially worked less than minimum wage. He's got to make the 8.75%, or whatever it is now, in tip in order to make minimum wage. IMO, if you want to eat at a place where you don't have to tip go to Wahoos or Baja Sonora, a place that's over the counter and you refill your own drinks.
Well, crap service deserves crap tips imo. I used to work hard no matter what, I can't control it when some douchebag wants to penny pinch. If they did tip me crap despite good service then trust me, I remembered it. All the bus boys remember it too, so does the bartender who I also tip out. Next time Mr. Shit Tipper came into my restaurant and I was busy well guess what, somebody is now low on the totem pole. That's the game, you tip like shit then you don't get things in a timely manner. If Mr. Shit Tip doesn't walk into the restaurant anymore then thank God I don't have to serve him anymore. It's a two way street, you play games with the waiter and the waiter will not respond as well as you'd like.
Oh yeah, the owner is not going to fire a good waiter just because some customer comes crying to them over a long wait. All I ever had to say was, "He didn't tip me last time" and the owner/manager would give you the fluffy feeling and forget it ever happened. If a manager fired me for not giving it my all for a person who is demanding yet doesn't tip then I should have quit that place a long time ago. Worthless manager imo.
As for the tip based on a flat fee, put yourself in the waiters shoes. Unless the state of CA changes it to a flat fee per table then I would agree with your point. However, they still have to pay a % of your bill, so a lobster dinner would cost a waiter more money and the incentive to provide good service goes right down the drain.
You are correct. The train has left the station in regards to how the system works. So we have what we have.
But I think you are incorrect about how much your boss the restaurant manager will stand behind you when you tell him " He didn't tip me last time". My family has been in the restaurant business for over 80 years. My father was THE top salesman for Sysco foods for many years. They essentially closed down the offices for his funeral. I've met many owners/managers and chefs through the years. It is bad business because restaurants rely on return business. I don't care how good you are, that excuse would not fly too many times. They recognize that you start down that path and it just leads to failure. No owner wants that and if they are worth their salt they will let you know.
I told my kids who worked as waiters/waitresses that you count your money at the end of the day. Every customer gets the same service, the same smile, the same extra effort. And don't worry about the cheapskates because it will all average out. In fact, YOU will do better if you take the same great approach for every customer. You focus on the cheapskate and it will bring you down for the rest.
A true professional waiter does not allow that to happen. I told my kids (and excuse the biblical reference) that they "heap coals on the head" of the cheap person when they still treat them with kindness after being stiffed. Treating them poorly will only invite more of the same.
Too often waiters give poor or mediocre service and get a poor tip and quickly blame it on a cheapskate. I told my kids that when they get a poor tip, if they have a chance they should ask the customer is there was something they could do better...or...was there a need they didn't meet.
im still not following. if a waiter gets 0 in tips all day, they have no extra income. you cannot tax $0? they will have to pay their income taxes at the end of the year on their minimum wages but if they dont get any on top of that then how do they pay the extra 8.75%?
I guess 0 is a bad example. I usually ended up making enough to cover the tax so I guess I don't know as much as I thought. I was trying to illustrate the point that waiters have to pay a portion of the total sales as claimed income.
There is a provision where waiters are charged 8% of their sales as income. They assume that there will be at least that much in tips. Employers are required to report it as part of their w-2.
Take a look on your w-2. There is a box that mentions...wages, TIPS, etc.
You always take care of your customers no matter what, I'm just not into cheaping out on tips because they think the waiter doesn't deserve it. I think this quote from you says it best.
"I told my kids who worked as waiters/waitresses that you count your money at the end of the day. Every customer gets the same service, the same smile, the same extra effort. And don't worry about the cheapskates because it will all average out. In fact, YOU will do better if you take the same great approach for every customer. You focus on the cheapskate and it will bring you down for the rest."
I fully agree with that and it's very true. I also agree that crap service deserves a crap tip. If I'm sitting there and my drink has been empty for 15 minutes then they really aren't working for it. If my food comes out cold and I feel like they don't really care if I do then yeah, they aren't going to get what they think they deserve.
But I also disagree with you about the manager thing, if I'm a good waiter and some customer really bothers me and cheaps out on me then I'd expect the manager to take my side.
got it, makes much more sense now. thanks.
My point is more that yes the manager will back up a waiter once in a while with that. But then most will give you the talk I gave my kids.
At the end of the day I would guess the best waiters get the best tip totals at the end of the day. I would think that the cheapskates would fall randomly across the board. However, I'm sure there are certain shifts that tip less but it would still be across the board.
It really isn't a fair system. I have cousin that worked as a bartender in the 90's at a really hot spot. He would have nights where he would have over $1000 in tips. And he was trying to work into a better bar where "He can give even better tips". Yet you have the little old lady at Ihop that hustles her ass off because the difference between a $3 and $4 tip makes a difference to her. I stopped at a Denny's in a Flying J so that I could watch the final debate. I ate a 1.89 salad and a free water. I sat there for 2 hours solid and my water was topped off numerous times. My bill came to $2.07 or something. How do you tip someone .40-50 cents. I gave her a $5 tip. Yet I have recently been over to a new BJ's and the service was fair to poor and I had to begrudgingly give a $20 tip. Its really not fair how it works.
Yeah, there are some inequalities. You can't expect a little old lady to handle being a bartender in a busy bar, asking for a heart attack. There's no steadfast rule as to how you tip, whatever floats your boat.
I agree with most of your post. Although the opposite is customary, I tip much more, percentage wise, at cheaper places than at expensive places. I usually give on the lower end of the customary tip at an expensive restaurant and much more than is customary at an inexpensive one.
The part I disagree with is that siding with the employee in some cases, such as this, is not consistent with his own financial interests. It may have pissed of this one customer. However, what he did was lose an employee (we have no idea if that is a loss here) and more importantly hurt his restaurant's reputation and the whole franchises brand. He would have been better off losing the client.
Customer is always right!
Too many successful companies use that philosophy.
You have an employee that keeps getting "cheapskates" and you have an employee problem not a cheapskate problem.
I would rather have the employee tell me ahead of time that a cheapskate has returned so that I can have someone else serve his station than have him handle the situation and chase a paying customer away.
There are successful companies with a "employees first" mentality.
It has to be a balance. Having worked in retail myself from high school throughout college, I understand the need to keep your customers happy so that they continue to give you their business. This is particularly important for businesses that have online competition, like at Barnes & Noble where I worked - you piss a customer off, he's gonna start buying his books on Amazon and once that happens he's not coming back.
At the same time, I saw lots of customers take unfair advantage of that, returning books that had clearly been read and other shit like that. There are also a lot of people who are just straight up scam artists - I watched people come in, take items off the shelf and try to "return" them for cash, and I also had people pay with say a $10 then try to tell me they gave me a $50. If you always give those "customers" the benefit of the doubt, you are going to become a target for every scammer around at best. You will likely end up going broke.
No. Some customers are not worth having. Wake gives good examples. Also, employees are a resource. Having them screwed is not a good business model. What you are suggesting by changing the server is simply causing another employee to be screwed. As far as too many cheapskates, nothing here suggests such a pattern. If there is a pattern, then you do not want this server. The person is apparently not making customers happy. However, if you have a good server and the customer is causing the problem, then you may not want a customer. Good customers are always right. Bad ones are not ones (that cost more than the income they generate) are not worth having. I agree that good customer service is important, but there comes a point where you do not want a customer.
Answer me this question: is there still an accepted 5% differential between lunch and dinner (say 15% vs 20% or 20% vs. 25%)?
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