Online Now 719

Fighton247 Board

The home for discussion on USC athletics

On this Board 366
Record: 3523 (11/24/2012)

Online now 718
Record: 4850 (6/6/2012)

Boards ▾

Fighton247 Board

The home for discussion on USC athletics

Off Topic Board

FightOn247 message board for off topic posts

Trojan News on the Net

Latest USC headlines from around the net

Reply

The argument against SC...they're more talented, however...

  • MdatrojaninE said...

    I loved the way he played the position...LoJack was a very capable run stopper and a expert pass rusher. If only the defense were healthy his last game as a Trojan...the game wouldn't even have been close, despite the uncharacteristic miscues by the offense!banghead

    Preach On!

    signature image

    TrojanWarrior1

  • There is no way to say it other than that we do lack depth at the interior of the defensive line. An Uko injury would be devastating. Need a minimum of 4 guys to get real playing time a game.

    Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

    MJRuffalo

  • MJRuffalo said...

    There is no way to say it other than that we do lack depth at the interior of the defensive line. An Uko injury would be devastating. Need a minimum of 4 guys to get real playing time a game.

    They have 4-5 MORE THAN capable bodies for the interior.

    I do not see the depth issue...it's not there. Stop looking for ghosts.

    signature image

    TrojanWarrior1

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    Preach On!

    Chuuuch!

    MdatrojaninE

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    They have 4-5 MORE THAN capable bodies for the interior.

    I do not see the depth issue...it's not there. Stop looking for ghosts.

    Once again T-Dub, I don't believe it's necessarily the amount of bodies for the interior line that Ruff has issues with, but more so, the quality (??) of and/or the experience or lack thereof said bodies...I believe the bodies in question are well aware that this is the common opinion regarding them and are very willing to disprove such an opinion. FO!

    MdatrojaninE

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    If LSU loses a RB, they'll just plug the next one in line right in.

    If they lose a QB... Different story.

    The story is the same...there is still a drop off regardless of the position. The drop off from McNeal to Morgan is negligible at best. The wild card is Buck Allen, who seems to have really opened some eyes this spring.

    The drop off at the QB position for those aforementioned programs is significant. Although in LSU's case all of their QB's suck. So do Bama's for that matter.

    How many yards did Morgan gain for USC last year? Not very many in my memory and Buck Allen hasn't gained a single yard for the Trojans as yet.

    Color me very concerned if McNeal can't go this season. As far as I'm concerned McNeal is the man as far as the run game goes.

    draig

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    They have 4-5 MORE THAN capable bodies for the interior.

    I do not see the depth issue...it's not there. Stop looking for ghosts.

    4 or 5? We have 2 dudes who with playing experience. We really need Woods to show out, and 1 other to play at a high level and that is with no injuries. We have other warm blooded bodies available, but it remains to be seen if they are USC caliber DT's. This is in no way looking for ghosts, but a very relevant concern. Though that is really our only major concern.

    Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

    MJRuffalo

  • MJRuffalo said...

    4 or 5? We have 2 dudes who with playing experience. We really need Woods to show out, and 1 other to play at a high level and that is with no injuries. We have other warm blooded bodies available, but it remains to be seen if they are USC caliber DT's. This is in no way looking for ghosts, but a very relevant concern. Though that is really our only major concern.

    Agree with Ruff. DT depth is weak.

    Funky1

  • Funky1 said...

    Agree with Ruff. DT depth is weak.

    I agree...you and Ruff need to learn the definitions and the differences between the words depth and experience.

    signature image

    TrojanWarrior1

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    Please go in to detail regarding the depth of the Dline...not how experienced they are. How many programs can say that their 2nd and 3rd stringers have experience(at any position)?

    From Scott's end of Spring 2012 depth chart:

    DE
    DEVON KENNARD^ - Solid, waiting for the breakout season
    Greg Townsend Jr. - Unproven, highly recruited
    Charles Burks - Has not played
    DeVante Wilson* - Has not played
    Michael Arakelian - Never heard of him

    NT
    J.R. Tavai - Showed promise at the end of last season
    Antwaun Woods - Has not realized his potential yet
    Cody Temple* - Has not played

    DT
    George Uko - Played well at the end of last season
    Zack Kusnir - Walk on?
    Christian Heyward* - Has not played
    Yonatan Aviv - Never heard of him

    DE
    WES HORTON^ - Solid
    Morgan Breslin OR - JUCO, has not played for Trojans yet
    Kevin Greene - limited action so far
    (Leonard Williams) - not on campus yet

    Look, I like these guys as much as the next Trojan. But, we have very little game experience. Also very young. Rarely do defensive linemen make an impact as freshmen or sophomores....except in video games. The potential is certainly there...but if you have a high level of confidence in this group, you're acting like a "homer".

    rkinslow

  • rkinslow said...

    From Scott's end of Spring 2012 depth chart:

    DE DEVON KENNARD^ - Solid, waiting for the breakout season Greg Townsend Jr. - Unproven, highly recruited Charles Burks - Has not played DeVante Wilson* - Has not played Michael Arakelian - Never heard of him

    NT J.R. Tavai - Showed promise at the end of last season Antwaun Woods - Has not realized his potential yet Cody Temple* - Has not played

    DT George Uko - Played well at the end of last season Zack Kusnir - Walk on? Christian Heyward* - Has not played Yonatan Aviv - Never heard of him

    DE WES HORTON^ - Solid Morgan Breslin OR - JUCO, has not played for Trojans yet Kevin Greene - limited action so far (Leonard Williams) - not on campus yet

    Look, I like these guys as much as the next Trojan. But, we have very little game experience. Also very young. Rarely do defensive linemen make an impact as freshmen or sophomores....except in video games. The potential is certainly there...but if you have a high level of confidence in this group, you're acting like a "homer".

    Cheebus H. Feist....Everyone is always trying to move the goal posts.

    depth   [depth] Show IPA
    noun
    1.
    a dimension taken through an object or body of material, usually downward from an upper surface, horizontally inward from an outer surface, or from top to bottom of something regarded as one of several layers.

    ex·pe·ri·ence   [ik-speer-ee-uhns] Show IPA noun, verb, ex·pe·ri·enced, ex·pe·ri·enc·ing.
    noun
    1.
    a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something: My encounter with the bear in the woods was a frightening experience.
    2.
    the process or fact of personally observing, encountering, or undergoing something: business experience.
    3.
    the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time: to learn from experience; the range of human experience.
    4.
    knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone: a man of experience.
    5.
    Philosophy . the totality of the cognitions given by perception; all that is perceived, understood, and remembered.

    signature image

    TrojanWarrior1

  • TrojanWarrior1 said...

    I agree...you and Ruff need to learn the definitions and the differences between the words depth and experience.

    Not at all. I don't count completely unproven warm bodies as depth. Neither does anyone else when talking about depth. I mean we could put up fliers on campus for dudes to come out for the football team and be defensive linemen, that it still not adding any real depth. According to a webster definition, sure, according to reality, then hell no.

    This post was edited by MJRuffalo on 6/23/2012 at 5:43 PM

    Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

    MJRuffalo

  • MJRuffalo said...

    Not at all. I don't count completely unproven warm bodies as depth. Neither does anyone else when talking about depth. I mean we could put up fliers on campus for dudes to come out for the football team and be defensive linemen, that it still not adding any real depth. According to a webster definition, sure, according to reality, then hell no.

    Smart post...I was having this very conversation with TLong85 and Pitzzzr on the Oregon board. Pitzzzr seemed to have a good handle on reality. Here was my take on your depth:

    97duck2214 posts

    USC's front line talent (1st team) on both sides of the ball is outrageous. I wouldn't say I'm confident in an Oregon win, but I'll be rooting for them and expect the game to be very close. If our QB hits the ground running and progresses well this year, then I'd say we should be better than last year and I'd give us the slight edge...due only to depth. Which brings me to your touting of your depth chart. Below is the post spring depth chart released by LK...not sure about an "established" 4 deep at DE, 3 deep rotation at defensive tackle, linebacker, etc. etc. Just because there are names on the roster doesn't mean you have a solid depth chart. In fact, roughly 5 of the 9 backups to your starting DE's/DT's didn't see the field at all last year. 7 of the 12 linebackers listed didn't see the field last year. 4 of 8 of your safeties the same. I do think you are very strong at Corner, but again that is mostly front line talent...unproven backups. They all may be experienced by November, but if any of them are injured then your depth argument goes in the pooper.
    http://usctrojans.cstv.com/blog/12sfb2dp.fb.pdf

    signature image

    97duck

  • MJRuffalo said...

    Not at all. I don't count completely unproven warm bodies as depth. Neither does anyone else when talking about depth. I mean we could put up fliers on campus for dudes to come out for the football team and be defensive linemen, that it still not adding any real depth. According to a webster definition, sure, according to reality, then hell no.

    Before last season, Marqise Lee, Curtis McNeal, Dion Bailey, Hayes Pullard, Lamar Dawson, Marcus Martin, Kevin Graf, Randall Telfer, Xavier Grimble, Juicy Harris, and George Uko were unproven. With that being said, I think the staff will have those "warm bodies" on the defensive line ready by 9/1/2012.

    signature image

    What sanctions? Our 75 are better than your 85.

    Action Figure

  • Action Figure said...

    Before last season, Marqise Lee, Curtis McNeal, Dion Bailey, Hayes Pullard, Lamar Dawson, Marcus Martin, Kevin Graf, Randall Telfer, Xavier Grimble, Juicy Harris, and George Uko were unproven. With that being said, I think the staff will have those "warm bodies" on the defensive line ready by 9/1/2012.

    That's rare. Don't expect it to become the new standard.

    Especially on the lines...Freshman and Sophomores (1st or 2nd year, if there is a RS) rarely contribute

    rkinslow

  • rkinslow said...

    That's rare. Don't expect it to become the new standard.

    Especially on the lines...Freshman and Sophomores (1st or 2nd year, if there is a RS) rarely contribute

    It's rare, but it is what it is. Take Rozay Walker for example. It doesn't get any more "unproven" than that. A guy that has never played LT in his life and had to lose well over 70 pounds to even be considered for the position.

    signature image

    What sanctions? Our 75 are better than your 85.

    Action Figure

  • rkinslow said...

    From Scott's end of Spring 2012 depth chart:

    DE DEVON KENNARD^ - Solid, waiting for the breakout season Greg Townsend Jr. - Unproven, highly recruited Charles Burks - Has not played DeVante Wilson* - Has not played Michael Arakelian - Never heard of him

    NT J.R. Tavai - Showed promise at the end of last season Antwaun Woods - Has not realized his potential yet Cody Temple* - Has not played

    DT George Uko - Played well at the end of last season Zack Kusnir - Walk on? Christian Heyward* - Has not played Yonatan Aviv - Never heard of him

    DE WES HORTON^ - Solid Morgan Breslin OR - JUCO, has not played for Trojans yet Kevin Greene - limited action so far (Leonard Williams) - not on campus yet

    Look, I like these guys as much as the next Trojan. But, we have very little game experience. Also very young. Rarely do defensive linemen make an impact as freshmen or sophomores....except in video games. The potential is certainly there...but if you have a high level of confidence in this group, you're acting like a "homer".

    LOL @ "Never heard of him." At first I thought Scott wrote that.

    Christian Heyward was injured during the Spring, right? How did he look on the scout team last year? Either Kusnir is a damn good walk-on to have beaten out a 4-star, or we could be in trouble at DT.

    Adamson651

  • rkinslow said...

    That's rare. Don't expect it to become the new standard.

    Especially on the lines...Freshman and Sophomores (1st or 2nd year, if there is a RS) rarely contribute

    Rarely at USC? Bwahahahaha!!!peace

    Since 2001, How Many Frosh or RS Frosh & True Sophs....

    can you remember getting playing time and contributing? Ill start: Shaun Cody LoJack started as a RS Mike Patterson started as true S

    usc.247sports.com
    signature image

    TrojanWarrior1

  • I remember the 2004 season..USC was ranked preseason #1, even though the team started a brand new offensive line. The only returning starters on offense period, was Leinart and Fred Matua. Winston Justice got in trouble, and the staff had to pull a kid out of the JUCO ranks named Deuce Lutui, Ryan Kalil was starting as center for the first time (wasn't he a 3*?), DJ was a true freshmen, and Stevie a sophomore. RB and LenDale started for the first time that season.

    Sometimes talent raises the odds of kids performing well and contributing from day one..and like that 2004 team, there is a chip on the shoulder of these kids in 2012. I hope it is enough, but considering what has happened at USC, I'm going to go with heart and talent to win the day - or season, lol.

    signature image

    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • MJRuffalo said...

    Not at all. I don't count completely unproven warm bodies as depth. Neither does anyone else when talking about depth. I mean we could put up fliers on campus for dudes to come out for the football team and be defensive linemen, that it still not adding any real depth. According to a webster definition, sure, according to reality, then hell no.

    A little late to the party on this one, but I assume SC's players who have not gotten a lot of playing time will perform well when given the chance in the same way that I assume Bama's and LSU's players will perform well when given the chance.

    Don't we all assume that those schools always have big time talent in the pipeline and waiting in the wings on their OL and DL ?

    Why would we not think the same thing about SC ?

    Was anyone talking about Uko before last year ? Or Tavai ? No- because they hadn't had a chance to shine yet.

    I think people are going to be very happy with the play of SC's DL this year.

    It doesn't hurt that SC's offense will put so many points on the board that opposing teams are going to be forced to throw the ball for much of the game, which will allow the DL to mostly focus go after the opposing QB for much of the game. Certainly that's what were going to be seeing during a lot of 2nd halves this year.

    USCTraveler

  • USCTraveler said...

    A little late to the party on this one, but I assume SC's players who have not gotten a lot of playing time will perform well when given the chance in the same way that I assume Bama's and LSU's players will perform well when given the chance.

    Don't we all assume that those schools always have big time talent in the pipeline and waiting in the wings on their OL and DL ?

    Why would we not think the same thing about SC ?

    Was anyone talking about Uko before last year ? Or Tavai ? No- because they hadn't had a chance to shine yet.

    I think people are going to be very happy with the play of SC's DL this year.

    It doesn't hurt that SC's offense will put so many points on the board that opposing teams are going to be forced to throw the ball for much of the game, which will allow the DL to mostly focus go after the opposing QB for much of the game. Certainly that's what were going to be seeing during a lot of 2nd halves this year.

    Actually a ton of people were talking about Uko. Tavai was a surprise.

    Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

    MJRuffalo

  • TrojanWarrior1.............Who has more talent & depth than USC..............Bama & LSU right off the bat........I'll start there...probably two or three more........Just check out the top recruiting classes for the last 4/5 years..........USC not in the top 3/4.........you have to face the facts......I know, I know it may be hard or impossible to face.

    This post was edited by JHATL41892 on 6/28/2012 at 10:26 PM

    JHATL41892

  • JH-ATL said...

    TrojanWarrior1.............Who has more talent & depth than USC..............Bama & LSU right off the bat........I'll start there...probably two or three more........Just check out the top recruiting classes for the last 4/5 years..........USC not in the top 3/4.........you have to face the facts......I know, I know it may be hard or impossible to face.

    Defensively, you have a point with LSU and Bama having more talent and depth. Offensively it's a different story. SC has three, possibly four future first rounders starting in Barkley, Woods, Lee, and Holmes. And, as far as class rankings go, SC has been in the top 10 to five range the last few years...and that's with a loss of 30 scholarships and a two year bowl ban. For a comparison, just look at those insane recruiting classes that Bama landed after getting hammered for the Albert Means' scandal? biggrin

    signature image

    What sanctions? Our 75 are better than your 85.

    Action Figure

  • Action Figure said...

    Defensively, you have a point with LSU and Bama having more talent and depth. Offensively it's a different story. SC has three, possibly four future first rounders starting in Barkley, Woods, Lee, and Holmes. And, as far as class rankings go, SC has been in the top 10 to five range the last few years...and that's with a loss of 30 scholarships and a two year bowl ban. For a comparison, just look at those insane recruiting classes that Bama landed after getting hammered for the Albert Means' scandal? biggrin

    biggrin

    signature image

    "Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil

    usctrojan1

  • Action Figure●..........Bama has four for sure first round draft picks on the present OL. That is without even looking at the D & RB's.
    Give USC 2/4 more years of recruiting and if you hold this year's level, you will be at the top too. Come on down....let's square off for a NC.....will be a great game to watch.........hope you make it there this year and get to face Bama or LSU. Would be the most watched game in college football history......I do want Bama to beat out LSU and be the one there.

    This post was edited by JHATL41892 on 6/28/2012 at 11:55 PM

    JHATL41892