In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 196
Online now 120 Record: 4850 (6/6/2012)
The home for discussion on USC athletics
FightOn247 message board for off topic posts
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
I have posed the great mystery question of the ages to tBB.
How could the Southern region (who must have invented and obviously has perfected) the game,
get owned by a bunch of surfer boys from California by such a large margin?
Cali 30 games over .500 all-time.
I wonder how many of them will answer with the middle finger?
Maybe I should have offered them the blue pill before I shared this inconvenient truth with them ...
California has 4 AQ schools, they are Stanford, CAL, UCLA, and USC. ITT I will refer to them as the Ca. AQ 4.
Currently, there are 14 SEC members, 12 ACC members, plus Louisville and South Florida in the Big East (although U of L & USF have never played any of the Ca. AQ 4)
Those totals equal 28 AQ teams, in what I'll refer to as the "Southern Region AQ."
Historically, the Ca. AQ 4 have dominated the Southern Region AQ schools.
The Ca. AQ 4 leads the all-time series
94-64-8 (59%) including ......
54-37-5 (59%) in games between winning teams.
Over the last decade plus, the Ca. AQ 4 have been more dominate than ever vs the South.
Since 2000, the Ca. AQ 4 are
22-6 (79%) including....
14-4 (78%) in games between winning teams.
The average score of these 28 games since 2000 =
Ca. AQ 4........ 34.8 avg ppg.
Southern AQ...20.6 avg ppg.
The avg. margin of victory for USC, UCLA, CAL, and Stanford vs the Southern AQ
was a gigantic 14.2 ppg.
At first I thought the Ca. AQ 4 maybe had benefited from a friendly schedule against bad teams.
But that wasn't the case. 20 of the 28 Southern AQ teams played had winning seasons and they
were able to win approx 60% of all other games they played. That win pct. of 60 dropped to just 21%
against the Ca. AQ 4.
I work with a guy who is from Alabama. He's a real nice guy and he loves him some Roll Tide.
Real easy going guy, everyone calls him Bama. When he saw this, he asked me the following question.
"Why do you think the California schools have dominated the South like that? I always thought it was
the other way around." (Btw- yes, he was quick to remind me that Bama was 5-2 all-time vs SC)
So what does tBB think? Help me answer my friend's question. Why has California dominated the South?
Is it the home grown talent? The coaching? The water?
California owns them boys down south, I reckon!
It's the sushi.
and the Raisins
No, it's the tofu!
"Here are provided seats of meditative joy, where shall rise again the destined reign of Troy." Virgil
The reason California has partly dominated the south is because a lot of the game you are using are from teams not in the south, or at least I don't think of as the south. Boston College, Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland, Va Tech, and Virginia.
I do think of USC dominating the south the last 10 years or so. Even for UCLA, I didn't even remember they played Alabama 12 years ago, I do remember them beating a couple of average Tennessee teams though.
Take out the games against the teams you mention above and the 4 Ca. schools record goes from
94-64-8 (59%) to 74-53-7 (58%).
So I guess you are right. They are 1% less dominate without the games against those teams.
Money...it's gotta be the shoes!!!!!!!
I thought they were 22-6 to start?
The Mtn West must really good then, don't they have a winning record vs the Pac-10/12 the past 5-7 years?
This post was edited by westcoastfball 16 months ago
No one was talking about SEC dominance 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago. The SEC dominance talk really started in 2006. So looking at data before then is irrelevant...no one would argue that the SEC was not dominant in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s or the first half of the 00s.
Since 2006, the SEC is clearly the best conference. And its not close.
That was just since 2000.
From 2000-2012 vs Southern AQ (Basically current ACC/SEC members)
(14-4) winning teams vs winning teams
Avg Score/ MOV
Ca AQ.......34.8 ppg
South AQ..20.6 ppg
Ca. +14.2 Avg MOV
The MWC was really good.
Did you know that from 1990-2010 the top 4 teams in the MWC =
(Utah, BYU, Air Force, & (TCU - from after they joined the MWC around 2000)
combined, had a winning record vs every AQ Conference
except the PAC (and they were close vs the PAC).
Those 4 combined had a winning record vs the
SEC, ACC, Big East, Big 10, & Big 12 (from 1990-2010).
Pretty impressive IMO.
Oops, meant to quote westcoast about the MWC
Here is a little breakdown of the numbers:
All 166 games of USC, Ucla, Cal, & Stanford vs
teams currently in the ACC & SEC* or aka Southern region AQ's,
which primarily consists of the OG members of the Southern Conference (SoCon).
*Games vs Tulane included only when they were a member of the SEC.
Match-Ups Between Elite Teams
(Elite=75% or better season win %)
Ca AQ 4 (18-9-3) 65% 30 games
Home & Away
Ca. AQ 4 vs Southern AQ
43-19-2 home (69%) 68g
31-33-4 away (49%) 68g
20-12-2 neutral(62%) 34g
94-64-8 overall (59%) 166g
Ca. AQ 4 won 66% of their
home and neutral site games.
Avg. Score/Margin of Victory
California AQ.....21.5 ppg
Southern AQ......17.9 ppg
CA AQ +3.6 PPG MOV
Out of the 166 games, 110 were match-ups between either
2 winning teams or 2 losing teams(relatively even match-ups)
Ca AQ 4 (54-37-5) 59% between winning teams.
Ca AQ 4 (10-4-0) 71% between losing teams.
Ca AQ 4 (64-41-5) 60% overall in even match-ups.
The other 56 games, were split. Each played 28 games
vs the other with a heavy advantage as a team that had
a winning season vs a team that finished .500 or below.
Ca AQ 4 (26-2-0) 93%
South AQ (21-4-3) 80%
In games between winning teams only
every Ca. school had a winning record.
USC (23-13-0) 64%
UCLA (15-11-4) 57%
CAL (9-7-0) 56%
Stanford (7-6-1) 54%
Ca AQ 4 (54-37-5) 59%
Right but out of those 28 games, a decent number are against teams that aren't really from the south, like the one's I mentioned. Before you posted this thread I didn't think Stanford played any games against southern teams that I could remember, same for Cal, except the 2 vs Tennessee. I knew USC would have at least 4 wins, and UCLA 2.
Well, I gets worse for the SEC without those other games against the ACC teams so I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Since 2000 - CA 4 vs Current SEC teams
UCLA 35, Alabama 24
UCLA 20, @Alabama 17
USC 24, Auburn 17
USC 23 @Auburn 0
Cal 45, Tennessee 31 (Tenn-SEC East Champs)
@Tennessee 35, Cal 18
Cal 45, Texas A&M 10 (Not in SEC at the time)
UCLA 27, Tennessee 24
UCLA 19, @Tennessee 15
USC 70, Arkansas 17
USC 50, @Arkansas 14 (Ark-SEC West Champs)
CA (10-1) 91%
Avg Game Score
CA - 34.2 ppg
SEC- 18.5 ppg
CA MOV = +15.7 ppg
That is fine, I was only thinking about taking out the northern teams in the ACC, but it's your thread, however you want to measure is fine. While Maryland isn't in the south, I probably would have still counted Fla St, Miami, Ga Tech, and Clemson.
I'm still not sure what your point is either, none of these game are recent. The most recent game was 4 seasons ago.
Even since 2006, I fail to see the so-called separation between the SEC and the
western teams from the PAC 12 and what was the MWC. Maybe they have beat up
on the other regions and other conferences, but they have only been about .500
against the big 2 conferences out West.
If the PAC 12 had created the BCS and picked themselves for the NC game almost every year
like the SEC, then the PAC 12 would have had their chances to win 7 or 8 MNC's as well. I don't
believe hype and what Espin tries to sell me, I believe what the results from the games played tell me.
2006-2012 vs PAC 12 & MWC
SEC (14-13) Overall
SEC (6-9) in games between 2 winning teams.
Georgia lost to Colorado 29-27
Georgia beat Colorado 14-13
Georgia lost to Boise St 35-21
Georgia beat ASU 27-10
Georgia beat ASU 20-17
Texas A&M lost to Cal 45-10
Tennessee lost to Wyoming 13-7
Tennessee beat Air Force 31-30
Tennessee lost to Cal 45-31
Tennessee beat Cal 35-18
Tennessee lost to UCLA 27-24
Tennessee lost to UCLA 19-15
Tennessee lost to Oregon 48-13
Ole Miss lost to BYU 14-13
Missouri lost to Oregon St 39-38
Missouri beat San Diego St 27-24
Missouri lost to ASU 37-30
Missouri beat ASU 24-20
Alabama beat Colorado 30-24
Alabama lost to Utah 31-17
Auburn beat Washington St 40-14
Auburn beat Oregon 22-19
Arkansas lost to USC 50-14
LSU beat Arizona 45-3
LSU beat Oregon 40-27
LSU beat Washington 31-23
LSU beat Washington 41-3
Florida - No games
Vandy - No games
Kentucky - No games
Miss State-No games
South Car - No games
FYI -before anyone complains (Westcoast) about Missouri & A&M being included,
their 2-3 record is balanced out by Colorado's 1-2 record that was also included,
so instead of 14-13 you would have 10-9 = same difference.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports