Cravens was the No. 1 player from Calif. in 2013
247Sports National Analayst JC Shurburtt discusses what hurdles USC faced with recruiting after the 2013 season, and at the very least, the perception of coaching instability?
- Scott Schrader
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usctrojan1 ●
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westcoastrules
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westcoastrules said...
Great question, Scott.
I think the philosophy after last year's debacle at the OT spot with Murphy and Peat should have been "We won't get left out to dry!" This would have led to meeting the expectations at certain positions.
Let me explain.
I know Kiffin doesn't like to oversign and then tell kids later, after Signing Day, "Sorry, kid, we have to release you. Don't have a schollie for you," like the much lauded Saban does (and I can't for the life of me figure out why he is heralded as such a prime guy when he treats people this way. That's just cold). Anyway...
However, the expectations should have been clearer. For example, at the DT position, his clear approach should have been, "We will get either the top guy (EV or AR) or else 'fall short' with a guy like Clark from Rialto or Bryant from Florida." How do they fall short in a positive way? They never stop recruiting the plan B guy like Clark or Bryant or the guys who call and say, "Can we commit?" like Kiffin said many kids did during the process, kids who had USC offers. Kiffin said they turned them away, saying they were full. They should have let them over commit silently at least. The smoke from the fire was rising long before the public decommits happened. They should have paid attention and let the overcommitting happen when the smoke was rising. Kffin knows the recruiting process is a snakeoilman's game. I am sure he has a lab in his office where he mixes his own oil.
The same can be true for Goodman. From past posts, you said that Goodman was no longer being recruited much by USC. WHAT! Why on earth did they back off a local guy like this? I know chances looked good with McQuay and Cravens was in, but why back off! At least show him some recruiting love. Why? In case this happens.
And by the way, it is guaranteed to happen every year. Once again, Kiffin said himself, "We're not going to get every guy we're going for...other coaches get paid to recruit too." Okay, so then, my point is made. If you know you're not going to get every main guy, then that means you have to recruit the guys who are plan B, realizing you're not going to get every main guy. in fact, knowing you will not get every main guy means your approach to plan B has to be as effortful as plan A, perhaps even more so, so that you won't be left handing.
Another example: MLB. USC is incrediby thin with true MLB's who have the frame to truly play the position. Scott Starr is still small for that. Dawson is a junior, the only true MLB. Many people on this site have recognized this need at MLB as well. What on earth is wrong with Isaac S.? Why not recruit him? The guy was a Stanford verbal at one point, I am sure qualifying isn't an issue. Plenty of other schools seems satisfied to get a 4 star guy and turn him into a maniac on the field. Just don't get stuff like this. Then again, it doesn't surpise me if the end-all approach is not to make sure they don't get left out of the party.
I know we don't have numbers, but the catch is to fill them with ideally Plan A recruits and, if these guys decommit, fill them with Plan B guys, or at least it should be since everyone knows "you won't get everyone."
Not recruiting Bryant at DT from Florida is inexcusable, since the guy really like USC. It was clear the coaches did not go through the process with him and thus could not truly have a shot for him when they tried one day before NSD.
Lastly, when evaluating under sanctions, the coaches have to stop reaching for every 5-star, since, again, "We know we're not going to get everyone we want."
If they are good evaluators, then should focus on filling needs with 3-4 stars who have the best bodies and who have enough to be molded into guys who can play.
If their expectation would have been to get two DT's, and they already had Kenny Bigs, then they should have analyzed lower starred guys who were at least 6'3 (since Ashawn and EV were at least that and haven't a long, strong DT is what they clearly were shooting for), and big bodied, like the aforementioned. This would have forced them to look at lesser known kids who maybe could have filled with second DT spot, which is a desperate need.
There is no way I can say that it is satisfactory to sign such few guys. Kiffin and everyone knows, for the last time, there is just no way you're going to get every top guy. it makes to sense to have a philsophical expectation that will ensure all spots are filled.
Rule of thumb: You can't trust verbals! You have to assume at least half are selling you a bill of goods, and to let a 17-18-year old do this to an adult...at the very least, my pride would make sure I have plan B shored up pretty good.
You asked a question, so I figured we were free to respond. No doubt many will disagree, but thanks for giving us the format to respond! Great job!
My question to you is: how do you feel about this recruiting season? In other words, were you shocked by missing out on so many and signing so little, or did you see this coming?
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AceRockow said...
My question is what's with the spite? Why does EV tweet a picture of himself in an USC uniform a couple days before signing with another program? There have been other examples as well. What did USC do in the recruiting process to make these kids want to stick it to us rather than politely move on?
BlemBlam3 ●
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westcoastrules said...
Great question, Scott.
I think the philosophy after last year's debacle at the OT spot with Murphy and Peat should have been "We won't get left out to dry!" This would have led to meeting the expectations at certain positions.
Let me explain.
I know Kiffin doesn't like to oversign and then tell kids later, after Signing Day, "Sorry, kid, we have to release you. Don't have a schollie for you," like the much lauded Saban does (and I can't for the life of me figure out why he is heralded as such a prime guy when he treats people this way. That's just cold). Anyway...
However, the expectations should have been clearer. For example, at the DT position, his clear approach should have been, "We will get either the top guy (EV or AR) or else 'fall short' with a guy like Clark from Rialto or Bryant from Florida." How do they fall short in a positive way? They never stop recruiting the plan B guy like Clark or Bryant or the guys who call and say, "Can we commit?" like Kiffin said many kids did during the process, kids who had USC offers. Kiffin said they turned them away, saying they were full. They should have let them over commit silently at least. The smoke from the fire was rising long before the public decommits happened. They should have paid attention and let the overcommitting happen when the smoke was rising. Kffin knows the recruiting process is a snakeoilman's game. I am sure he has a lab in his office where he mixes his own oil.
The same can be true for Goodman. From past posts, you said that Goodman was no longer being recruited much by USC. WHAT! Why on earth did they back off a local guy like this? I know chances looked good with McQuay and Cravens was in, but why back off! At least show him some recruiting love. Why? In case this happens.
And by the way, it is guaranteed to happen every year. Once again, Kiffin said himself, "We're not going to get every guy we're going for...other coaches get paid to recruit too." Okay, so then, my point is made. If you know you're not going to get every main guy, then that means you have to recruit the guys who are plan B, realizing you're not going to get every main guy. in fact, knowing you will not get every main guy means your approach to plan B has to be as effortful as plan A, perhaps even more so, so that you won't be left handing.
Another example: MLB. USC is incrediby thin with true MLB's who have the frame to truly play the position. Scott Starr is still small for that. Dawson is a junior, the only true MLB. Many people on this site have recognized this need at MLB as well. What on earth is wrong with Isaac S.? Why not recruit him? The guy was a Stanford verbal at one point, I am sure qualifying isn't an issue. Plenty of other schools seems satisfied to get a 4 star guy and turn him into a maniac on the field. Just don't get stuff like this. Then again, it doesn't surpise me if the end-all approach is not to make sure they don't get left out of the party.
I know we don't have numbers, but the catch is to fill them with ideally Plan A recruits and, if these guys decommit, fill them with Plan B guys, or at least it should be since everyone knows "you won't get everyone."
Not recruiting Bryant at DT from Florida is inexcusable, since the guy really like USC. It was clear the coaches did not go through the process with him and thus could not truly have a shot for him when they tried one day before NSD.
Lastly, when evaluating under sanctions, the coaches have to stop reaching for every 5-star, since, again, "We know we're not going to get everyone we want."
If they are good evaluators, then should focus on filling needs with 3-4 stars who have the best bodies and who have enough to be molded into guys who can play.
If their expectation would have been to get two DT's, and they already had Kenny Bigs, then they should have analyzed lower starred guys who were at least 6'3 (since Ashawn and EV were at least that and haven't a long, strong DT is what they clearly were shooting for), and big bodied, like the aforementioned. This would have forced them to look at lesser known kids who maybe could have filled with second DT spot, which is a desperate need.
There is no way I can say that it is satisfactory to sign such few guys. Kiffin and everyone knows, for the last time, there is just no way you're going to get every top guy. it makes to sense to have a philsophical expectation that will ensure all spots are filled.
Rule of thumb: You can't trust verbals! You have to assume at least half are selling you a bill of goods, and to let a 17-18-year old do this to an adult...at the very least, my pride would make sure I have plan B shored up pretty good.
You asked a question, so I figured we were free to respond. No doubt many will disagree, but thanks for giving us the format to respond! Great job!
My question to you is: how do you feel about this recruiting season? In other words, were you shocked by missing out on so many and signing so little, or did you see this coming?
Alonzo Harris ●
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jpltrojan1 said...
I see myriad problems with the whole process. For instance; CLK went into LOI day without a LB coach. He fired his LB and DB coach. His DC moved onto the NFL. It's not that it's good or bad it's just unstable. IMO the coaching staff should've been determined well before LOI day, published and supported by Haden as the 2013 coaching staff. Lock it in.
Where are the 3-star kids that SC used to get, coach them up, and watch them dominate? Is it better to have holes in the recruitment program then to have guys who need work? I'm guessing there's at least a few LBs in CA alone that weren't recruited by major programs that will be household names some day. Where are they?
If we get 20 next year this may be a blessing in disguise...it starts the road to recovery one year earlier.
But, that doesn't answer the questions about the current status of Lane Kiffin's program.
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usctrojan1 ●
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The Lizard King
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jpltrojan1 said...
I see myriad problems with the whole process. For instance; CLK went into LOI day without a LB coach. He fired his LB and DB coach. His DC moved onto the NFL. It's not that it's good or bad it's just unstable. IMO the coaching staff should've been determined well before LOI day, published and supported by Haden as the 2013 coaching staff. Lock it in.
Where are the 3-star kids that SC used to get, coach them up, and watch them dominate? Is it better to have holes in the recruitment program then to have guys who need work? I'm guessing there's at least a few LBs in CA alone that weren't recruited by major programs that will be household names some day. Where are they?
If we get 20 next year this may be a blessing in disguise...it starts the road to recovery one year earlier.
But, that doesn't answer the questions about the current status of Lane Kiffin's program.
CrownCityTrojan
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jpltrojan1 said...
I see myriad problems with the whole process. For instance; CLK went into LOI day without a LB coach. He fired his LB and DB coach. His DC moved onto the NFL. It's not that it's good or bad it's just unstable. IMO the coaching staff should've been determined well before LOI day, published and supported by Haden as the 2013 coaching staff. Lock it in.
Where are the 3-star kids that SC used to get, coach them up, and watch them dominate? Is it better to have holes in the recruitment program then to have guys who need work? I'm guessing there's at least a few LBs in CA alone that weren't recruited by major programs that will be household names some day. Where are they?
If we get 20 next year this may be a blessing in disguise...it starts the road to recovery one year earlier.
But, that doesn't answer the questions about the current status of Lane Kiffin's program.
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Scott Schrader said...
http://usc.247sports.com/Article/JC-Shurburtt-talks-about-USCs-recruiting-expectations-115554
What should USC's recruiting expectations have been after the 2013 season, and at the very least, the perception of coaching instability?
Well, since we haven't had that season yet, I'm not quite sure, Schrader
SpiritofTroy74
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SpiritofTroy74
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AceRockow said...
I think that Kiffin said this year that the same thing wasn't going to happen as last year, so he had a plan, but just not a very good one.
My question is what's with the spite? Why does EV tweet a picture of himself in an USC uniform a couple days before signing with another program? There have been other examples as well. What did USC do in the recruiting process to make these kids want to stick it to us rather than politely move on?
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AceRockow said...
I think that Kiffin said this year that the same thing wasn't going to happen as last year, so he had a plan, but just not a very good one.
My question is what's with the spite? Why does EV tweet a picture of himself in an USC uniform a couple days before signing with another program? There have been other examples as well. What did USC do in the recruiting process to make these kids want to stick it to us rather than politely move on?
SC Trojan Esq
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This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Scott Schrader on 2/7/2013 at 10:23 AM
Scott Schrader
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